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Electronic Lucas Mag/Dyno Conversion

Posted by pre31 on May 12, 2015

 

This post covers the modification of a Lucas mag/dyno to halls effect sensor and coil ignition, apologies to the purists out there if this modification offends you but it does eliminate magneto and timing problems forever and was developed for a rider not a show pony.

Background – magnetos produce a strong spark at high revolutions and full advance, but when retarded (for starting) and when turning over slowly they produce a weaker spark. Even when a magneto is 100% a rider is faced with ongoing maintenance adjusting point gap, timing, cleaning contact point faces and possible condenser failure. Magneto problems can be hard to diagnose and rectify, it has been said that all carburetor problems are in the magneto and all magneto problems are in the carburetor.

Carl M. has been running a modified ZE1 Magneto on a 1916 BSA K Model for 3 years with no problems whatsoever (having ridden an estimated 2-3,000 km).

This post covers the modification of a Lucas Mag/Dyno built up out of spare parts and with as much of the components hidden as possible and the external appearance mostly maintained.

The modification is essentially the same as the ZE1 modification

https://pre31.wordpress.com/2014/07/14/electronic-magneto-conversion/

The coil is hidden in a gutted dynamo body, the magneto armature is replaced with a shaft, the HT lead passing down to the magneto and through the original pickup, a manual advance and retard is retained and the only 2 electrical connections are positive and negative to the D and F terminals of the dynamo (the points cover clip at this stage needs to be changed to the longer version).

Naturally there is no longer a functioning dynamo so this is a total loss system with a 12 volt 4.2 amp/hour gel battery being only half consumed after a two day ride (this is from the BSA modified magnetos experience)

 

This is a you tube video of the modified magneto running both clockwise and anticlockwise

 

 

 

 

Electronic Lucas Mag/Dyno

Electronic Lucas Mag/Dyno

Electronic Lucas Mag/Dyno

2015-05-12 19.21.06

 

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Posted in Machining, Magneto, Miscellaneous Bike Related Stuff, Post 31 Motorcycles, Pre 31 Motorcycles, Youtube Videos | Tagged: , , , | Leave a Comment »

Stage 4 – The Devils Marbles to Darwin of the Adelaide to Darwin Veteran Rally

Posted by pre31 on February 12, 2015

 

All 4 WA entries complete the ride to Darwin.

Greg, Graeme, Dave and John having completed the trip from Adelaide to Darwin.

Note there are lots of photos so let it load fully

20140816_073750 20140816_085233 20140816_105847 20140816_105915 20140816_113232 20140816_113455 20140818_090802 20140818_090822 20140818_090848 20140818_111728 20140818_125448 20140818_154159 20140818_170144 20140818_170712 20140819_062547 20140819_062642 20140819_084143 20140819_165020 20140819_165025 IMG_5751 (640x480) IMG-20140819-WA0002 P1110535 P1110536 P1110537 P1110538 P1110539 P1110540 P1110541 P1110542 P1110543 P1110544 P1110545 P1110546 P1110547

 

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Stage 2 – Coober Pedy to Ayres Rock of the Adelaide to Darwin Veteran Rally

Posted by pre31 on August 18, 2014

 

 

John, Dave Greg and Graeme continue on from Coober Pedy to Ayres Rock

Note there are lots of photos so let it load fully

 

John with his DKW

John with his DKW

P1110186

1915 Ariel Vee Twin

P1110187

1912 AKD Vee Twin

P1110111

P1110123

P1110163

P1110185

P1110186

1915 Ariel Vee Twin

P1110187

1912 AKD Vee Twin

P1110194

 

P1110207

1912 or 1913 Peerless Single

P1110203

P1110209

1925 Dodge Fire Appliance

P1110213

One of the many Triumphs

P1110217

another Triumph

P1110218

P1110229

1915 Spacke De Luxe and 1913 Royal Enfield Vee Twins

P1110236

Graeme and Dave at the NT Border

P1110239

Greg and John at the NT Border

P1110241

P1110245

P1110249

1917 Harley Davidson

P1110263

1916 Gem JAP Vee Twin

P1110265

P1110280

P1110351

3 of the 4 WA bikes at The Rock

P1110354

Greg at The Rock

P1110355

John at The Rock

P1110357

Graeme at The Rock

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Stage 1 Adelaide to Coober Pedy of the Adelaide to Darwin Veteran Rally

Posted by pre31 on August 7, 2014

Graeme H, Greg B and Dave A all completed the Stage 1 of rally from riding Adelaide to Coober Pedy, there were a few teething issues that involved a few evenings of repairs and hopefully they are now sorted.  John W has flown into Coober Pedy and joins the rally from here.

John’s DKW apparently started 2nd kick this should come as no surprise to anybody who is aware of the thorough, lengthy and detailed pre-trip preparation that John had completed the week leading up to the rally 😉

 

 

A typical evening stop with a degree of spannering required prior to the next days ride

A typical evening stop with a degree of spannering required prior to the next days ride

 

Graeme about to start the days ride

Graeme about to start the days ride

 

Graeme and Greg discussing the finer points of Veteran riding

Graeme and Greg discussing the finer points of Veteran riding

 

Greg at full noise

Greg enjoying the scenery

 

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The start of the Adelaide to Darwin Veteran Rally

Posted by pre31 on August 4, 2014

Finally after many months and in most cases a year or more of preparation 3 of the 5 Western Australian entries started the rally.

Greg B on a Triumph

Dave A on a Triumph

Graeme H on an Indian

 

Western Australian’s missing from the start were

John W. who is joining the rally at Coober Pedy and Carl M. who had unplanned surgery last week and is unable to ride and start the rally.

 

3 Western Australian entries at the start

3 Western Australian entries at the start

Graham H. about to start the rally

Graeme H about to start the rally

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Electronic Magneto Conversion

Posted by pre31 on July 14, 2014

This post covers the modification of a magneto to halls effect sensor and coil ignition, apologies to the purists out there if this modification offends you but it does eliminate magneto and timing problems forever and was developed for a rider not a show pony.

 

Background – magnetos produce a strong spark at high revolutions and full advance, but when retarded (for starting) and when turning over slowly they produce a weaker spark. Even when a magneto is 100% a rider is faced with ongoing maintenance adjusting point gap, timing, cleaning contact point faces and possible condenser failure. Magneto problems can be hard to diagnose and rectify, it has been said that all carburetor problems are in the magneto and all magneto problems are in the carburetor.

Back in 2012 Carl M. had entered a 1916 BSA K Model in the Perth to Sydney Veteran Rally and in preparing the bike in 2011 an alternative to a conventional magneto was sought. It was decided to explore halls effect sensors and coil ignition for a Bosch ZE1 magneto.

 

Bosch ZE1 Modified Magneto “Mark 1”

The first (successful) magneto was based on a ZE1 magneto with a halls effect sensor mounted on/in the cam ring and trigger/power wires extending through rubber tubing (simulating the HT lead) to a lucas type 12 volt coil. A 4.2 amp hour gel battery was mounted in the rear tool box and the bike tested over several months. The bike was transformed, it started far easier, idled better and ran smoother, the current draw was around 0.2-.25 amp/hour and the bike could easily be ridden over 2 days on 300 km plus events without recharging the battery and at the end of the event the battery was found to still have around 50% charge remaining.

This is a video is “Mark 1” being bench tested, the spark is jumping around 8 mm and with the engine running simulated at around 500 – 3,600 rpm (i.e. magneto at 250 – 1,800 rpm)

 

 

Once fitted the timing was set statically and then adjusted with a timing light (by rotating the magnet block on the armature taper within the cam ring), once set it never changed and apart from making sure the battery was topped up the magneto was not touched again over the next 2 years or so, manual advance and retard was maintained. This magneto was used for over 2,500 km of rides.

Unfortunately due to work commitments the Perth to Sydney Rally could not be completed.

 

Bosch ZE1 Modified Magneto “Mark 2”

Having proved up the concept it was decided to explore the option of incorporating the coil inside the magneto, many coils were purchased and tested and all the smaller coils had insufficient resistance to suit the sensor and were discarded. A second hand Ducati coil was found (with suitable coil resistance) and fitted inside the magneto body, initially it worked well but failed after an hour or so  bench testing – it had come from a bike being restored and was of unknown quality – after market replacement coils for this Ducati were too big to fit the magneto.

 

Bosch ZE1 Modified Magneto “Mark 3”

After several months of testing unsuited coils, one was found and while slightly too large it looked like it could be modified to fit and be used, this coil was a Dyna DC10-1. The ends of the coil were trimmed off, the coil sikaflexed into position (as the mounts had been cut off), the magneto armature removed and replaced with a shaft and this allowed just sufficient room to fit the coil and run the HT lead through the original ZE1 HT outlet (that was turned down from a solid piece of polypropylene as it needed to protrude slightly more).

The Veteran BSA fitted with the new magneto has now traveled several hundred km and it seems to work as well as the original Mark 1 magneto.

During this time a few other club members /veteran motorcycle owners have modified their bikes to have the same system and they all report a changed bike with easy starting, idling and improved running.

This magneto/bike is being ridden in the 2014 Adelaide to Darwin Veteran Rally, it will have two batteries and they will be swapped over and recharged every second day.

 

Halls effect sensor and magnets/magnet holder as brought from Ebay

Halls effect sensor and magnets/magnet holder as brought from Ebay

 

Dyna coil mounted inside of the ZE1 magneto with epoxy putty to insulate the contacts

Dyna coil mounted inside of the ZE1 magneto with epoxy putty to insulate the contacts

 

Bosch ZE1 Magneto with the HT lead passing through the casing

Bosch ZE1 Magneto with the HT lead passing through the casing

 

Finished HT lean

Finished HT lead

 

Earth spring

Earth spring

 

Removed cam ring and wiring

Removed cam ring and wiring

 

Halls effect sensor and trigger magnet mounting block

Halls effect sensor and trigger magnet mounting block

 

35 degree before TDC static timing mark

35 degree before TDC static timing mark

 

Static timing position 35 degrees BTDC and fully advanced

Dynamic timing position 35 degrees BTDC and fully advanced, this is correct for ACW rotation of the magnets, CW rotation would have the static timing closer to the center of the module. Initial static timing was aligned with the white mark.

 

Modified Magneto “Mark 4” onwards

Future plans are to modify a vee twin magneto with both cylinders having correct timing (using a twin spark Dyna Coil and wasted spark to each cylinder) as well as a 20/30’s Magdyno with the coil hidden in a simulated dynamo. Plans are also in place to use this method of ignition in place of a trembler coil in a 1903 motorcycle currently under restoration.

 

 

For those interested in pursuing this type of modification you will need:

The direction, completeness and style of magneto can vary greatly as it is only being used as a carrier of the rotating shaft, the cam ring can even be a slightly loose fit on the body as there is no contact between the sensor and triggers (normally a loose fit would send the contact point gap all over the place). “Mark 3” has been built up out of spare parts as a trial.

A halls effect sensor and rare earth magnets – a suitable place for these is to buy any system for any vehicle from “simonbbc”  on ebay, buy the cheapest listed as the components are the same.

http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/simonbbc/m.html?item=360661530549&hash=item53f91a37b5&pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

The coil should have a primary resistance of  at least 3 ohms (measured between the two low voltage contacts)  and a secondary resistance of  at least 7,000 ohms (i.e. measured between HT and either one of the low voltage contacts), most older style Kettering type/contact points coils would be suited, most modern CDI coils would not.

A Dyna DC10-1 coil has been found to be suitable with a primary resistance of 5 ohms and secondary of >12,000 ohms. The “Mark 1” coil was a typical Lucas ebay reproduction with a primary of 3 ohms and secondary of around 8,500 ohms. The Dyna coil packs a stronger spark and is much more compact to that of the Lucas style.

On Mark 1 – Mark 3 the trigger magnets are setup balanced with a wasted spark on the exhaust stroke as a result (the engine runs and sounds the same as it did without the wasted spark).

The HT output needs to be remade slightly more protruding and the points covers needs slightly more clearance (a core plug works fine).

The halls effect sensor is mounted on a plate/sleeve that fits in the cam ring and just clears the magneto body to the rear.

The magnets are mounted in an aluminum tapered mount that fits to the armature shaft.

All up costs should be around AU$200-300 plus a condemned magneto and a couple of evenings work (assuming you have access to a lathe).

 

 

The wiring is easy, the module has only 2 wires and you need to add a third

 Black goes to negative on the coil

Red goes to positive on the coil and then through a switch and fuse to the positive battery terminal

Green goes from the cam ring/halls effect earth to the negative battery terminal

The body of the coil needs to be earthed to the magneto body

 Remember to switch the unit off when the engine is not running otherwise you can flatten the battery

Wiring diagram/sketch

Wiring diagram/sketch

 

Posted in Machining, Magneto, Miscellaneous Bike Related Stuff, Post 31 Motorcycles, Pre 31 Motorcycles, Youtube Videos | Tagged: , , , , , | 2 Comments »

5 West Australian riders prepare for the 2014 Adelaide to Darwin Veteran Rally

Posted by pre31 on July 11, 2014

Five motorcycles riders from Perth Western Australia are in the final stages of preparing their bikes for a Veteran Rally from Adelaide to Darwin. The rally has just under 60 entries of which all but 2 are Pre 1919 veteran motorcycles or motorcars.

The rally departs Adelaide (i.e. Birdwood Museum) on Sunday 3rd August and then travels up to Darwin over 3 weeks (including a trip to Ayres Rock), the trip covers approximately 3,975 km via the blacktop or 4,145 km if the optional Oodnadatta Track is taken (complete with several hundred kilometers of dirt roads).

The West Australian entries are:

Dave A – 1913 Triumph

Greg B – 1911 Triumph

Graeme H – 1918 Indian

Carl M – 1916 BSA

John W – 1929 DKW

Details of the rally can be found at:

http://a2d.netguys.com.au/

 

 

 

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September Challenge – Pickering Run

Posted by pre31 on December 16, 2012

Sept. Challenge 001

Posted in 2012 UK Tour, Pre 31 Motorcycles | Tagged: , , , , | Leave a Comment »

46th Irish Motorcycle Rally – youtube videos

Posted by pre31 on December 4, 2012

A few youtube videos taken during the 2012 Irish National Rally and our 2012 UK Tour.

Eric A. riding a 1914 Williamson 1000cc twin.

Dave A. riding a 1921 Indian Scout 600cc.

Katrin B. riding a 1914 Calthorpe 350cc  (maybe a 250cc) single speed.

Healy Pass

Vintage and Veteran motorcyles riding up Healy Pass

includes

Katrin B. on a 1914 Calthorpe 350 cc (maybe a 250cc) single speed.

John Q. on a 1912 Sun 500cc with hub gears.

Riding a 1930 Sunbeam on the Irish Rally

Some moisture got in the camera (during battery changes) and the lens has condensation on it leading to poor picture quality.

A great ride never the less, narrow roads, tight car passes and finishes with a rocky water splash.

1936 Scott Flying Squirrel riding up Healy Pass.

Some moisture got in the camera (during battery changes) and the lens has condensation on it leading to poor picture quality.

1921 Indian Scout following a 1914 Williamson riding down from the top of Healy Pass.

Some moisture got in the camera (during battery changes) and the lens has condensation on it leading to poor picture quality.

Posted in 2012 UK Tour, 46th Irish Rally, Pre 31 Motorcycles, Youtube Videos | Tagged: , , , , , | 1 Comment »

1928 Scott Flying Squirrel – youtube video and photos “Peter Groucott Remembrance Run”

Posted by pre31 on December 2, 2012

This is a short video and photos of a 1928 Scott Flying Squirrel taken just prior to setting off on the VMCC of WA Peter Groucott Remembrance Run 2012.

Owner Carl M.

1928 Scott Flying Squirrel walk around

1928 Scott Flying Squirrel

1928 Scott Flying Squirrel

1928 Scott Flying Squirrel

1928 Scott Flying Squirrel

1928 Scott Flying Squirrel

1928 Scott Flying Squirrel

1928 Scott Flying Squirrel

1928 Scott Flying Squirrel

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